Problems using the CTX - is it just me?

[rmcsandhurst]

Am I reading and thinking too much for my little grey cells?

I have had a great deal of help from various CTX 3030 owners and sincerely thank all concerned. However, I am still experiencing some problems and wonder if this is down to a simple error on my part? Like, for instance, a value somewhere in the “universal settings” that is totally unsuitable.


I’m hoping some knowledgable person can come up with a suggestion that will enable me to start using my new machine in the same way that I used to with my e-Trac (following forum help, it became almost a switch on and go machine with few variables needing adjustment).


The following, if anyone has the patience to read it, summarises my recent experiences with the CTX:


When I first used the machine it was with the factory "coins" programme slightly modified by myself to try and mimic the e-Trac (cannot exactly remember what I altered!). The field chosen yielded 30+ small targets (buttons, studs, pistol balls and the like) in 3 hours and I was quite happy for a "first dig". I followed this up with a couple of searches using various forum members settings and things went rapidly downhill.


Acting on further advice and also reading the forum, I did a complete factory reset, cleared out all the supplied programmes apart from "coins" and loaded in 8 of Gordon Heritage’s programmes together with his "universal settings". I then went back to the original field and found that the search conditions had changed somewhat. Previously it had been planted with maize that had hardly begun to sprout and I was able to swing the detector freely but yesterday, the maize was a foot high and I had to swing carefully between the rows - there were also a couple of fairly large “bald” areas that I tended to concentrate on. I tried several of Gordon's programme with "Tadpole", "Combined" and "Ferrous Soil" being the main ones used.


In 2 hours I did not dig a single non-ferrous item. Occasionally I got a brief, sharp sound with the reading 11:40 (ish) or 12:40 (ish) but further checking in the area did not produce a repeat signal (not even if I switched to all-metal).


I was pleased to only dig just hree pieces of iron - two to check my diagnosis that the target was indeed iron and one that fooled me.


The Sensitivity panel read a constant 14 and I tried running "Manual" at 14, 22 and 27. Also "Auto" at 0 or +3. I did, of course, run "noise cancel" and "ground balance" from time to time.


Before the above search, I played about with the machine in the garden. I know many regard air tests as having limited value but I was surprised that the machine would not pick up a hammered penny if waved more than about 2.5" from the coil (held in the air) with the sensitivity set at 26 and using most of Gordon's programmes. We have all seen the amazing “in air” results in comparison test videos with numeropus machines laid on a ruler or graduated stick.


I have just read that "Ground Balance" should not be enabled "in most detecting conditions where ground mineralisation is mild" (f.21 of the Instruction Manual) - I checked my machine and found it was indeed enabled (should one enable and then disable it every time one wishes to ground balance during a search?). I had hoped that the constantly enabled "Ground Balance" was the cause of today’s lack of signals but, with it disabled at home, I still found that the "in air" depth on a hammered penny was still around the 2".


Here’s hoping,


Dave

Note that I love the machine and find the XChange2 really simple

[rmcsandhurst]

Excuse the odd spelling mistake - as so often happens with my posts there was no option to "edit post" (not even immediately after pressing the "post" button)

Dave

[whigsvolt]

Hi Dave.
I too have only had My Ctx for a few weeks now and have done around 10 -15 hours hours with it.

I too have done various tests with cut halves and other hammered coins and like you i was suprised at how the signal was lost after raising the coil more than 3 or 4 inches of the ground.I was using Gordons Smooth programme.
Am i worried about it.No not a bit.

I hate in air tests with a vengance, and are not a true reflection of the detectors true capability,s,and theres nothing like finding a hammered coin thast been in the ground especialy pasture for 800+ years.

The Minelab,s rely in my opinion on targets that have leached in the soil for many years,and is one of the reasons that i firmly believe that when the ground has been ploughed and the find dislodged in the soil it puts the minelabs at a very slight disatvantage hence the reason i hate air testing.
Now my theory may not be entirely correct but thats the way i see it.
I have had a few nice finds so far,bar the screen freeze problems and errors,but i formly belive the detector is more than capable at doing the business
when required.
Its early days yet Dave so hang in their and dont rely on the air test,s they are a waist of time in not all but many repsect,s

[rmcsandhurst]

Hi Dave.
I too have only had My Ctx for a few weeks now and have done around 10 -15 hours hours with it.

I too have done various tests with cut halves and other hammered coins and like you i was suprised at how the signal was lost after raising the coil more than 3 or 4 inches of the ground.I was using Gordons Smooth programme.
Am i worried about it.No not a bit.

I hate in air tests with a vengance, and are not a true reflection of the detectors true capability,s,and theres nothing like finding a hammered coin thast been in the ground especialy pasture for 800+ years.

The Minelab,s rely in my opinion on targets that have leached in the soil for many years,and is one of the reasons that i firmly believe that when the ground has been ploughed and the find dislodged in the soil it puts the minelabs at a very slight disatvantage hence the reason i hate air testing.
Now my theory may not be entirely correct but thats the way i see it.
I have had a few nice finds so far,bar the screen freeze problems and errors,but i formly belive the detector is more than capable at doing the business
when required.
Its early days yet Dave so hang in their and dont rely on the air test,s they are a waist of time in not all but many repsect,s

I agree with and appreciate all that you say and the air testing was really just to pass the time (in between showers).

My real problems stem from live searching (in fields where I know exactly what should turn up) and the massive contrast between the two searches detailed. I can guarantee that I would have found targets yesterday if using my French "mobile phone on a stick"

Thanks,

Dave

[poppie]

If your not hitting at least 5" on that air test you have a major problem. Air test may not be the all, but come on, it should be hitting at least 8".

[fertler]

Were you working across the rows of maize or walking along the lines not actually swinging the coil from side to side? If you were walking along the rows with a 2D coil it is like running a knife blade along the row. The field of a 2D coil is a narrow vertical pattern that only works properly side to side, unlike concentrics where the field is cone shaped. So, if you run a knife blade down the row, how likely is it that your knife blade would pass over a target?
Just a thought from someone who has tried it down the rows of uncultivated rape stubble! The very thought makes me cringe these days!
Barrie.

[rmcsandhurst]

Were you working across the rows of maize or walking along the lines not actually swinging the coil from side to side? If you were walking along the rows with a 2D coil it is like running a knife blade along the row. The field of a 2D coil is a narrow vertical pattern that only works properly side to side, unlike concentrics where the field is cone shaped. So, if you run a knife blade down the row, how likely is it that your knife blade would pass over a target?
Just a thought from someone who has tried it down the rows of uncultivated rape stubble! The very thought makes me cringe these days!
Barrie.

Thanks, Barrie

Not wishing to upset the farmer by harvesting his crop early, I was indeed going upo and down the rows. I appreciate what you say but much of the 2 hours was spent searching the "bald" areas where I was able to swing the coil normally and also search East-West and North-South.

Dave

[rmcsandhurst]

If your not hitting at least 5" on that air test you have a major problem. Air test may not be the all, but come on, it should be hitting at least 8".

You could well be right! A friend who has loaded his CTX with Gordon's programmes and Universal Settings tried the exactly the same test. His results were:

I waved a full Edward I hammy over my coil with the Sens set to Manual 26 and these are my results:

Tadpole 10 inches
Combined 10 inches
Ferrous-Soil 9 inches
4-Tone 11 inches
Quiet 9 inches

I then tried them all in Auto + 3. Whilst all the programs were noticeably quieter, I was losing between 1 and 2 inches on all tests.

I tried a George V penny in Tadpole and was getting around 12-13 inches in Manual 26.

Hope this helps. I was using Gordon's Universal settings each time.

Dave

[rmcsandhurst]

Now I really don't know what to do

Without changing any of the settings on my CTX, I can now match the "in air" depths achieved by my friend - see above.

For example I can easily get 10" using Gordon's "Combined Programme" whereas it was a bare 2.5" previously.

Is it possible that my particular machine has an intermittent fault OR have I got a screw loose?

Dave

[rmcsandhurst]

Now I really don't know what to do

Without changing any of the settings on my CTX, I can now match the "in air" depths achieved by my friend - see above.

For example I can easily get 10" using Gordon's "Combined Programme" whereas it was a bare 2.5" previously.

Is it possible that my particular machine has an intermittent fault OR have I got a screw loose?

Dave

After further trials I now find that the depths in air are (say) 10" on a hammered penny when the machine is laid horizontally on a wooden bench (with the coil at 90 degrees to the normal search position) BUT if the machine is used in the normal way (or held upside down to eliminate ground effects) one is back to 2.5" or less.

So it appears that there could well be a fault and it's back to the dealer ASAP. Assuming that Minelab agree that it's faulty and considering it's a very new machine, I presume that I have the right to a replacement rather than a repair?

Dave

[fertler]

Looks like you've got the cliff detecting version
Barrie.

[Tombs]

just a thought but have you checked the leads are tight? and have a look under the coil cover to see if its clean.

[rmcsandhurst]

just a thought but have you checked the leads are tight? and have a look under the coil cover to see if its clean.

Good ideas (two heads are better than one) but I had taken the coil cover off before the unsuccessful 2 hour search just in case (it was clean inside) and, before today's checking looked at the leads (they were tight but I unscrewed both of them, blew them out with a "puffer" and connected them up again.

To add to my confusion I have just tried testing a hammered penny once more (again in air) and this time it picked it up 10" off the ground! Further checking showed that it was just as effective if the machine was horizontal on the bench with the coil vertical BUT if the whole thing was rotated 180 degrees (still horizontal on the bench but with the control box underneath rather than above the stem) one was back to a coupled of inches. If held with the stem vertical and the coil flat but, facing the heavens rather than the ground, the coin only gave a signal if it was within an inch of the coil.

I really don't care what the machine does if in non-detecting attitudes but the variability when in a "search" position really worries me.

Dave

[Tombs]

ok first off have you had any of what the Cambrian fox had when he did his video naked and running hot? im only playing this is really odd is it in manual? right just had an idea is there iron near by and its nulling on that..........something like a nail or maybe something in your pockets?
that could give the appearance of lost sensitivity.

[rmcsandhurst]

ok first off have you had any of what the Cambrian fox had when he did his video naked and running hot? im only playing this is really odd is it in manual? right just had an idea is there iron near by and its nulling on that..........something like a nail or maybe something in your pockets?
that could give the appearance of lost sensitivity.

No, I was careful to keep away from metals in general. Also kept changing the sensitivity back and forth using Manual (set at 26) and Auto.

Dave

[Tombs]

thats me done then im afraid i hope you get to the bottom of it!
good luck.

[Kyle]

thats a strange one and i to0 have no idea
If i am understanding you correctly - you now can hit the coin at 10" on the horizontal and 2" on the vertical axis (as you would be using it).

is your friends the same ?
what about the guys here who own one - can they mimic what you have done to compare?

have you tried the vertical sweeps outside on ground you know is clean?
hope you get it sorted - good luck

[whigsvolt]

After further trials I now find that the depths in air are (say) 10" on a hammered penny when the machine is laid horizontally on a wooden bench (with the coil at 90 degrees to the normal search position) BUT if the machine is used in the normal way (or held upside down to eliminate ground effects) one is back to 2.5" or less.

So it appears that there could well be a fault and it's back to the dealer ASAP. Assuming that Minelab agree that it's faulty and considering it's a very new machine, I presume that I have the right to a replacement rather than a repair?

Dave

Dave Im still not convinced there is a problem.The Detector on it,s side starts hunting and adjusting and will do silly lengths with targets especialy indoors.

On the groung vertical, the detector will start to get the ground as well as the target and if the machine is not set up right or correct auto ballance or Manula etc etc, the detector will not be optimised so to speak and will fall short of its expectations.

I too noticed that the air test on the ground were not very deep at all whe raising the coil,but its not a proper test of the detectors true capability,s.and i was just realy wanting to hear what the tones were like for Hammered coins,cut halves etc.
Im sure there is not a problem.
I feel the best bet would be to go detecting with someone using an Etrac and compare signals in the field under natural conditions with targets in the ground,but it may take time for you to be convinced.

[Tombs]

Dave Im still not convinced there is a problem.The Detector on it,s side starts hunting and adjusting and will do silly lengths with targets especialy indoors.

On the groung vertical, the detector will start to get the ground as well as the target and if the machine is not set up right or correct auto ballance or Manula etc etc, the detector will not be optimised so to speak and will fall short of its expectations.

I too noticed that the air test on the ground were not very deep at all whe raising the coil,but its not a proper test of the detectors true capability,s.and i was just realy wanting to hear what the tones were like for Hammered coins,cut halves etc.
Im sure there is not a problem.
I feel the best bet would be to go detecting with someone using an Etrac and compare signals in the field under natural conditions with targets in the ground,but it may take time for you to be convinced.

that is a very good idea

[rmcsandhurst]

Dave Im still not convinced there is a problem.The Detector on it,s side starts hunting and adjusting and will do silly lengths with targets especialy indoors.

On the groung vertical, the detector will start to get the ground as well as the target and if the machine is not set up right or correct auto ballance or Manula etc etc, the detector will not be optimised so to speak and will fall short of its expectations.

I too noticed that the air test on the ground were not very deep at all whe raising the coil,but its not a proper test of the detectors true capability,s.and i was just realy wanting to hear what the tones were like for Hammered coins,cut halves etc.
Im sure there is not a problem.
I feel the best bet would be to go detecting with someone using an Etrac and compare signals in the field under natural conditions with targets in the ground,but it may take time for you to be convinced.

I understand what you are saying but remain fairly convinced that there could be an intermittent problem. Any of the air tests I do are in the middle of my paved drive far away from anything metal (unless you think there may be "things" underneath!) and I always start by noise cancelling and ground balancing.

I have no wish to detect vertical surfaces nor above my head but suggestions that the "attitude" of the detector can make a significant difference puzzles me - certainly it does not have the slightest effect on air depths achieved with my Deus!

I repeated yesterday's air tests just to check my findings and also to use the two types of battery packs (another variable which needed eliminating. Using the machine in a normal fashion it gave a clear, sweet signal on an Edward Penny at 10". If it did that all the time I would be very happy.

My field searches (done on ones where I know exactly what to expect) show a bit of a trend:

First 4 outings with the CTX (targets brought home against hours spent searching):
10 in 3
25 in 2
00 in 2
33 in 4
14 in 3
39 in 5

121 in 19 hours = about 6 per hour (what I would expect from these fields).

By "targets brought home" I mean smallish non-ferrous items such as coins, buttons, studs, pistol balls, etc. Large pieces of scrap, shotties, foil, etc. have not been included.

Next 5 outings with the CTX (targets brought home against hours spent searching):
2 in 3.5 (both large items barely covered with soil)
0 in 2
2 in 2 (Lead roll 4" x 1" and a brass door knob)
3 in 2.5
0 in 2

7 in 12 hours = 1 every 102 minutes.

If that's not a trend and a cause for concern, I don't know what is.

I'm in discussions with the dealer who supplied the machine and will update this thread when I have something significant to report.

Thanks to all for posting ideas and opinions - much appreciated.

Dave

[fertler]

The last 5 outings do look suspicious don't they?

So far as your drive is concerned - and I expect that you know this - there may well be water, gas and electricity supplies running under there and from past experience builders do not pick up nails and screws that fall to the ground, sometimes in spectacular quantities, and have been known to dig holes for rubbish especially if the site is going to be covered by a driveway! After 52 years I am still using cut nails dropped by the builders of our first house! Mind you, I do not have a lot of use for cut nails!

Barrie.

[whigsvolt]

I understand what you are saying but remain fairly convinced that there could be an intermittent problem. Any of the air tests I do are in the middle of my paved drive far away from anything metal (unless you think there may be "things" underneath!) and I always start by noise cancelling and ground balancing.

I have no wish to detect vertical surfaces nor above my head but suggestions that the "attitude" of the detector can make a significant difference puzzles me - certainly it does not have the slightest effect on air depths achieved with my Deus!

I repeated yesterday's air tests just to check my findings and also to use the two types of battery packs (another variable which needed eliminating. Using the machine in a normal fashion it gave a clear, sweet signal on an Edward Penny at 10". If it did that all the time I would be very happy.

My field searches (done on ones where I know exactly what to expect) show a bit of a trend:

First 4 outings with the CTX (targets brought home against hours spent searching):
10 in 3
25 in 2
00 in 2
33 in 4
14 in 3
39 in 5

121 in 19 hours = about 6 per hour (what I would expect from these fields).

By "targets brought home" I mean smallish non-ferrous items such as coins, buttons, studs, pistol balls, etc. Large pieces of scrap, shotties, foil, etc. have not been included.

Next 5 outings with the CTX (targets brought home against hours spent searching):
2 in 3.5 (both large items barely covered with soil)
0 in 2
2 in 2 (Lead roll 4" x 1" and a brass door knob)
3 in 2.5
0 in 2

7 in 12 hours = 1 every 102 minutes.

If that's not a trend and a cause for concern, I don't know what is.

I'm in discussions with the dealer who supplied the machine and will update this thread when I have something significant to report.

Thanks to all for posting ideas and opinions - much appreciated.

Dave

The trends you have posted Dave do seem to show a much lower result,and it does concern me slightly.

All the finds i have had with the Ctx have not been very deep admittedly, probably about 6 inches,with coke cans at over 10 inches no problem.
Im still getting used to the higher tones and use the screens reject symbols to make decisions on whether to dig or not which is very effective.

Like i said earlier you need to go out in to the field with another detectorist and compare target depths and both detetors ability,s and feel this is the only real way to get some sort of piece of mind with the Ctx.

I have to agree though,that my F75 for what ever reason gets the hammered coins at a higher level than the Ctx in air.

[rmcsandhurst]

The last 5 outings do look suspicious don't they?

So far as your drive is concerned - and I expect that you know this - there may well be water, gas and electricity supplies running under there and from past experience builders do not pick up nails and screws that fall to the ground, sometimes in spectacular quantities, and have been known to dig holes for rubbish especially if the site is going to be covered by a driveway! After 52 years I am still using cut nails dropped by the builders of our first house! Mind you, I do not have a lot of use for cut nails!

Barrie.

True what you say, Barrie but I spent some years in the building game and supervised the construction of my driveway when I moved here 10 years ago. The old concrete and subsoil was dug out and backfilled with clean skelpings and then sand before the paviours were laid and there was no chance of anyone losing rubbish "on site". I know where all the services run and the area I use for any testing is very quiet.

When my father died he had rusty tins full of nails that he had recovered from wood he acquired for his open fire - these had been straightened for re-use! A typically careful person that abounded in that generation. The nails had to go when I cleared his two houses and six sheds - all full of 60 years worth of "it will be useful one day".

Dave

[omegamike]

My dad was exactly the same Dave, nothing wasted. Why buy a new weather jacket when a black plastic bin bag will do just as good! jars of nails and screws. I remember vividly one day he was painting his croft house white, he lived on the Isle of Skye. He poured the white wash into a bucket that must have been 60 years old if not older. It was a sight to see....... a very fine line of white wash leading from the barn to his house (40 yards) coming out of a hole in the bucket, funniest thing I've ever seen, god bless him

[rmcsandhurst]

As an update to this thread, any problems with my CTX3030 have now been completely resolved:

Following discussions between myself, Laura (of Detecnicks) and Martin Foran (Customer Service and Training Engineer at Minelab, Cork) it was suggested that I take my CTX3030 down to Fontwell.

Here the machine displayed reproducible inconsistencies along the lines described in my earlier posts in this thread. Laura was asked to send the machine to Minelab, Cork which she did that same day.

Tests by Martin and his team made it clear that the machine was defective (having a fault that they had never come across before!) and a complete new, replacement was to be sent to me.

This arrived today and I am looking forward to a new relationship with my CTX3030

The whole matter was dealt with quickly and effectively and, as always, excellent customer service from Detecnicks and Minelab (Cork)

Dave